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Talk about stuff, and if you must, about Xenimus
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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020 12:48 
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Anyone have a collection of old Xenimus installers? I can't find many anymore.

I'm looking for a few specific versions but it'd be great if we could compile a full list. I can come up with hosting for them.

Full installers and update installers would be great.

@ubernoober I know you used to collect these
@andy You too?


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PostPosted: 09 Feb 2020 19:45 
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I know you can get a bunch of old versions by using the archive.org wayback machine

Go here: https://web.archive.org/web/2019*/xenimus.com

Select a year and then click a random date that a snapshot was taken of the site. View the snapshot and then navigate to the xen download page and try to download a copy. They are usually backed up as well so it should work.

Few examples:

October 19th 2001 (v1.36 - update v1.37)
https://web.archive.org/web/20011020003 ... nloads.asp

June 1st 2002 (v1.49b)
https://web.archive.org/web/20020602114 ... nloads.asp

January 30th 2003 (v.154b - update v1.56)
https://web.archive.org/web/20030207230 ... nloads.htm


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020 00:56 
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At one point I used wayback machine and had 50+ installers all categorized, but now I can only find a few with MANY years in between. I think they phased out a lot of what they had archived?

Archive.org will only go so far, so I'm looking to start a site to try to fill out every version of this game. Maybe have a financial incentive? A few bucks per installer people dig up.

The only way to preserve these in time is to start collecting them now. Off old hard drives, laptops, etc. Since archive.org is not nearly comprehensive enough (but it's a start).

Is this something other people would be interested in? If so, I can get a website going.


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020 15:11 
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this might be a stupid question but what exactly can you do with these? could you theoretically make your own server ect and control that specific version? because if that is in fact the case I would be very interested in this.


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020 20:03 
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jinks98 wrote:
this might be a stupid question but what exactly can you do with these? could you theoretically make your own server ect and control that specific version? because if that is in fact the case I would be very interested in this.


Yes that's exactly what I can do.

Keep in mind it would only be client-side locked to that version, the server side would need to be made to match. But it's still very interesting to peruse the map on different versions of the game.

Aside from that, there's some special bonuses included in some of these installers. EJ has never been the best at including all the game files (v1.37 above without the update, which is a broken link, is missing some wav and mdj files and crashes).

But EJ also includes extra files sometimes. I know exactly what files I'm looking for. They're server side files that EJ accidentally included in the installer in early 2010 and possibly other times as well.

npcinfo.dat
specloc.dat

They contain all NPC locations and information, and all special object locations and information. With those it would be very easy to recreate the server side.

I believe EJ left these in the installer for at least 4 months. Those installers have been scrubbed from archive.org.

If there's any other bonus files I'd be curious to see what they include. Extra models? Maps with temporary changes? The Xmas update?

Also interesting to see the UI and main title page through the years.


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020 20:19 
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So if I was to say get v1.37 what exactly do you mean by the server would have to be made to match sorry for the stupid questions Im just very interested in pursuing this now. Even if I could
Make it to where it was just a single player game for just me would that be easy-ish to do?


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020 20:29 
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You only have the game client. You have to recreate the server. The easiest thing to do is a stub that accepts basic input and lets you move your position around the map. You won't have NPCs, gear, chests, levels, XP gain, spells, multiplayer, etc. All features would have to be fleshed out on a server side implementation.

That's why npcinfo.dat and specloc.dat would be helpful in recreating the server implementation. Already knowing these exact details as they were for EJ's server is irreplaceable.


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PostPosted: 10 Feb 2020 22:01 
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So if what exactly would you need for there to be gear? Because isnt that stuff in the game client as in the gear is in the files for the game that you download right? I know these are probably super basic stupid questions so I’m sorry if I seem completely ignorant because I am lol. Like say I rented a server and loaded the game in it how would you even begin to input those things into the server side so that it would know how to make drop rate ect?


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020 04:32 
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Have a parsed specloc database: https://pastebin.com/Bmdnj2GT


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020 04:34 
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And npcinfo: https://pastebin.com/dqLKbX8F


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020 04:36 
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Here's an example of all npc worn equipment parsed from I believe specloc data.

NPC IDs are +20000 above normal so they don't collide with legacy data.

https://pastebin.com/bE27hv2T


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PostPosted: 11 Feb 2020 09:59 
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That's amazing Andy, thanks a ton!


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PostPosted: 12 Feb 2020 14:22 
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jinks98 wrote:
So if what exactly would you need for there to be gear? Because isnt that stuff in the game client as in the gear is in the files for the game that you download right? I know these are probably super basic stupid questions so I’m sorry if I seem completely ignorant because I am lol. Like say I rented a server and loaded the game in it how would you even begin to input those things into the server side so that it would know how to make drop rate ect?

Think of the game client like a dumb Xenimus browser.

It waits for the server to tell it something, then it shows it.

The map file is client side. Models, sounds, menus, client side.

But what spawns on the map, what goes in your inventory, what you see on your stat screen, are all server side. The server tells the client what to see and what to display.

So you can implement your own version of that. What the NPCs do, how they do it, how they path, how they decide what to do.

You can implement a lot of your own server side logic. If you ever saw the custom Xenimus Servers people made you probably experienced alternate pathing, better monster AI, boss raids, different stat effects, etc.

So you start with the basics. You get the game client to point to your server instead of where it's trying to point by default. That's a modification to the client executable.

Then, you see what it's trying to ask for, and you reverse engineer the expected responses. You can glean information in various ways, but you can figure out what the client is expecting from the server.

So you can start out with logging in and moving around, navigating the map. You won't have anything fancy, but the map is client side, and the server tells the client where you are on that map. The client just displays what the server tells it to.

It's not necessarily easy, but you keep adding onto this and fleshing out the server side code.


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PostPosted: 16 Feb 2020 17:46 
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Mapping out installers.

Other sites to crawl than just xenimus.com:
http://www.blackstar-productions.com/xe ... nloads.asp
http://personalpages.tds.net/~ejthayer/Xen.exe

1.63: EJ calls out that all packets are encrypted from this version forward.

1.59b: 3 new classes added, major spell system changes to minor/tiron etc. Also the update where he fixed "major damage calculation problems" aka, he broke Xenimus from that point forward.

1.54b: New menu system but no "notes" button, no notes are included for any version before this update. The "Random" sound button is in the "Notes" button's future place.

1.51d: Last version I can find before the ugly new black menu. No notes (first notes appear in 1.59b, the terrible update). This seems like the latest version to have unencrypted packets and it just barely predates all the terrible suck.

1.51d has Xenimus Prime, Xenimus Anti PK, Xenimus Three, Dungeon Server, Xenimus Anti PK 2, and Xenimus Four. I believe Xenimus Anti PK 2 was referred to as "Xenimus five" by the players. This is the last state of the game before crazy server merging and then removal of servers.

This update seems like the holy grail to me. Funny thing is, it looks like all the servers except Xenimus Prime are on one ISP, and Xenimus Prime is hosted somewhere else. Totally different IP.

There's also a bunch of empty slots in the server list followed by Test Prime, Test Dungeon Server, and Test Prime 2 which are all local IPs for EJ's computer.

Before this point updates have no info and the site has no info on what's in an update.

1.49b: I can't find any info on what's in this. Predates the new menu. Predates xenimus.com.

1.40: No info on this one.

1.32: Missiing cast2.wav and some mdj (look at debug logs for what files are missing).


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020 08:48 
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whats your end goal here?


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020 14:16 
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I don't know yet. Exploration right now. Weighing my options. For now I'm just gathering all the information I can to decide on the best route.

I can pull assets I want to use into Unity and create a game from the ground up.
or
I could try to create a server that one of these old clients works against.

I have collected a lot of information that people have gathered for various Xenimus projects. Mods, calculators, Xenlua, XPS. I'm able to see the net code Andy made for his implementation and I think I could get something going.

If I do an XPS I don't know which version of Xenimus to pick. I think it's more realistic to pick a modern version, one that doesn't crash on alt+tab or require running in compatibility mode. The middle-era clients are clunky and don't work well in modern resolutions. One using the old gray menu screen is really my dream. But I think trying XPS may be too big a rabbit hole. So exporting assets from these old versions into Unity and going that route is probably the most realistic.

I now have the specloc data and NPC data that Andy provided. The next step for a unity project is to try to understand the map file and get that all ported in. Then I can use the specloc data for all the special objects on the map like dropwalls. And the NPC data will help me place NPCs exactly where they were in Xenimus and with the same gear/models they had. I'll have to translate what the data means, but it should all be there.

I'd really rather not recreate the map by hand. I'm not sure how people have pulled off the Xenimus maps they have. I always thought they used a hacked version of the game client pointed to a dummy server that let them move around the map, taking screenshots at various resolutions. They wouldn't need to parse the map file to do that. What I want to do is actually parse the map file though. I haven't started on that project yet.


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PostPosted: 17 Feb 2020 15:49 
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another type of рrivate server would be pretty rad.


Last edited by Constitution on 19 Feb 2020 14:28, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 18 Feb 2020 18:00 
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sounds complicated but interesting if you can pull it off. The real pity is that EJ wont just concentrate on x2 and hand over x1 to someone else to run as they see fit


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